Thanksgiving-2007.com - Did your history teacher ever teach you this?

Did your history teacher ever teach you this?

“Resolved, That a joint committee of both houses to be directed to wait upon the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a Constitution of government for safety and happiness” The Presidents reaction: "Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor… Now of these States to the service of the great and glorious Being Who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was that was or that will be …(and) to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue and the increase of science among us." “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religious, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” “It has been frequently remarked that it seems to have been reserved to the people of this country, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question, whether societies of men are really capable or not of establishing good government from reflection and choice, or whether they are forever destined to depend for their political constitutions on accident and force.” Alexander Hamilton From The Federalist Papers #1 “On every question of construction, [we must] carry ourselves back to the time when the constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the test, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was a part” Thomas Jefferson “No free government now exists in the world, unless where Christianity is acknowledged, and is the religion of the country.” Pennsylvania Supreme Court 1824. “The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind.” Thomas Jefferson. “I concur with the author in considering the moral precepts of Jesus as more pure, correct, and sublime than those of ancient philosophers.” Thomas Jefferson [I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. John Adams. All of these quotes were taken from speeches at official state functions or writings regardarding official state activities. Most are taken from the federalist papers. The founders official explainations of their intent in forming the constitution. Therefore they are relevant to the interpretation of the first amendment. While it is true that the constitution prevents the federal government from forming an official state church, that does not exclude them from participating in religious activities such as sectarian prayer during official functions. In fact it does not even prohibit them from promoting one religion over another. The purpose of the Establishment Clause was and is to forbid the congress from establishing an official state church or from preventing the individual states from establishing a state church. The purpose was not to make sure that those of minority religions are never exposed to religious thought that might offend them, but to ensure that congress can not interfere with the free practice of religion by any group of believers. In other words the establishment clause is intended to act as a foundation for the free excercise clause. My feild of Study is: Constitutional Law Jefferson took no official part in the forming of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Therefore Jefferson's opinion on the subject has no legal grounding, but just to clarify: The Church and State letter was written several years after the first amendment was added to the constitution and simply confirmed what I stated above in regards to the establishment clasue. "No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance." - Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947) Often quoted, but sorely misunderstood. The court found for the Board of Education allowing public funds be used to transport student to private Sectarian Schools. Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well- worn Bible: "I am a Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also." "Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb and purge my heart by the Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of thy son, Jesus Christ." From the prayer diary of George Washington Twenty times, in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!" But in this exclamatic I should have been as fanatical as (Parson) Bryant or (Pedagogue) Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean Hell.” John Adams. Have I said anything about Christianity here?

Public Comments

I forgot everything I was taught in history that why we are more likely to do it again
No, my junior high or high school teachers did not teach me this. However, most anyone who takes an interest in the U.S. and the issue of religion and state can easily find such information. Of course, the U.S. was founded by Christians and their values and morals have had a major impact on how our country was established. However, your quotes above refer to either the First Thanksgiving Day (celebrated as a one-time Thanksgiving) approved by Pres. Washington, or reflect the personal, religious views of other founding fathers. But ulimately their individual writings and views are exactly that -- individual. Our country is based on the supremacy of law and our Constitution. Surely your history teacher focuesed on the Constitution or the "Supreme Law" of the land. Including Amendment I: "Congress shall make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." (caps added for emphasis) The Contitution more or less "trumps" all of the quotes provided above. The constitutional system also provides a means of addressing disputes about the role of religion. As such, the system has usually upheld a firm separation of church and state. And by the way, your choice of quotes is selective. For example, you quoted T. Jefferson's personal religious views. However, you failed to provide Jefferson's famous "wall of seperation" quote in which he firmly and clearly upholds the separation of church and state. Jefferson, although a religious man himself, was wise enough to see the dangers of an official, government sponsorship of one religion over others. His knowledge came from the religious wars of Europe in his time. As someone who has studied political science, I will simply add that history since Jefferson's time has continued to demonstrate the importance of NOT establishing a state or primary religion. Our separation of church and state in the U.S. is a major contributing factor to our stability and prosperity. Countries that have had a state religion or otherwise upheld one religion over others, historically have much more internal unrest and instability. The fact that we live in such a prosperous and stable society today is partly thanks to Amendment I and its enforcement.
I reply with this: "No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance." - Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947) "One timeless lesson is that if citizens are subjected to state sponsored religious exercises, the State disavows its own duty to guard and respect that sphere of inviolable conscience and belief which is the mark of a free people. To compromise that principle today would be to deny our own tradition and forfeit our standing to urge others to secure the protections of that tradition for themselves." - Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992)
The issue you are obviously trying to raise is one of separation of church and state. You quite correctly quote our founding fathers and their deep religious sentiments. But the language expressed by the founding fathers actually counters any argument that could be made for establihsing a Christianity as a national religion or allowing religion to play a part in our government. You see, despite the religious leanings of Jefferson, Washington and Adams, none of the founding fathers included these requirement in our founding document - the COnstitution. We can't ascribe this fact to a mere mistake. These men, as you point out by their writings were deeply religious men - yet to a man they adopted a constitution wholoey forbidding the establishment of a religion. Surely if they though religion belonged in Government they would have been the men to put it there, since they themselves were so religious.
You will notice that your original quote mentions "God" but NOT "Jesus." You should also pay heed to the fact that this was a public document promulgated for popular consumption. You would be foolish to conclude that the public pronouncements of the Founders necessarily reflect their personal beliefs. They were politicians and, as such, often said things to gain the support of the ignorant masses. Further, even when they were actually religious it is doubtful that their religious beliefs would have won much support from the present Christian community. Jefferson professed himself either a Deist or a Unitarian as did many if the most important of the Founders. One thing is sure, not one single one of the Founders was either a Baptist (a church, then as now, of the lower classes) or a Fundamentalist (since fundamentalism is a late 19th century invention). Jefferson stated that the virgin birth of Jesus and his divinity were a myth in a private letter to John Adams. Adams stated, also in a private letter, that Christianity was the greatest calamity ever visited on mankind. Both men, like almost all the Founders, considered themselves the product of the Enlightenment. The credo of that movement was best summarized by Diderot who said that mankind could not possess true freedom until "the last king was strangled with the guts of the last priest."
no answer - question toooo long
No, my history teacher didn't cover this. But we covered it in Con Law. The very fact that the founders held deep religious believes, yet explicitly wrote in the Constitution that there should NOT be any national religion, is the most relevant. The whole point of the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses was to disclaim their personal beliefs, and make sure that those beliefs were NOT used to make any one religion dominant. Now, they probably never imagined that the debate was going to extend beyond just different forms/sects of Christianity, since their world-view was limited by their experiences. But that's precisely why the Constitution has been interpreted to not favor ANY religion. If you are trying to convince us that this was intended to be a Christian nation, then you are wasting your time. Those who believe that are already in agreement with you, and those who don't are not going to be convinced by 230 year old quotes.
schools no longer are allowed to teach information like this, they are required to teach the lie that there is a seperation of Church and State. Public schools are now used to teach the agenda of the non christians, in science and evolution, to gay rights agenday and more.